Eamonn O’Brien: I am delighted to be joined by Frances Jones, the CEO of Image Matters.

And today we are going to talk about a really interesting topic for speakers in general, which is what happens when people see them for the very first time? Are you like a book, are you judged by your appearances? And of course that’s the topic that I covered extensively in my book, How To Make Powerful Speeches, but we have a real image expert here today. So Frances, you are very welcome.

Frances Jones: Thank you for having me here.

Eamonn: It’s a delight to have you here.

So, let’s kick off maybe with the whole topic of appearances. Why does it really matter what you look like as a speaker?

Frances: Well, you mention it in your introduction there. We were always told as children, you know, you should never judge a book by its cover, but of course we all do. And even more-so in the digital age we live in now. It’s so instantaneous, with such a visual world we live in. We’re all making these snap decisions, very quickly, about all kinds of things. We’re making decisions about people’s education, their status, their lifestyle. Purely based on how they present themselves. So, it’s human nature. We can’t help it.

Eamonn: It is, yeah.

Frances: You know we all do it. And, I suppose, it’s not all about style of course, it has to be about substance as well. But it’s so important, particularly for professional speakers, that you make a great first impression.

Eamonn: Well, now, let’s talk about first impressions. I’m glad you mentioned that, because how quickly do people make that judgment? And when do they make a judgment?

Frances: When? Oh, they make it so quickly. When I started in this business many years ago, it was about 30 seconds, and then it was down to about 15. Now it’s three seconds. I’d even say, in many instances, it’s even quicker. It’s [Snaps fingers] in the blink of an eye. A decision is made. Because we’re surfing the net, everything is moving so fast.

Eamonn: And what is it that we’re looking at? So, if I’m looking at one speaker versus another, what really kind of pushes the dial, if you like, on my first impression? What do I notice most?

Frances: What do you notice most? Well, I’m sure you’ve heard of the statistics about how a first impression is formed. The first impression is based 55% on appearance and body language.

Eamonn: Yes.

Frances: 38% on the voice, on the pitch, pace, and tone of the voice.

Eamonn: Yes.

Frances: And only 7% on the words. So, it’s really the clothes you’re dressed in, how you present yourself, and of course your body language. Are you a friendly looking person? Are you commanding respect? Do you look professional? Do you look slovenly? Do you look as if you’ve taken care with how you’re presenting yourself? Are you really closed body language, are you cross looking? Or have you got lovely and open body language? All of these contribute.

Eamonn: I’d really like to get into that a little bit more but I think the body language thing is terribly important. So, what effect does it have, not just on the audience, but also on the speaker himself or herself?

Frances: Oh, it’s absolutely huge. I know from working with clients over the years… when people look good or feel they look good, they just feel that they can conquer the world. They feel so confident. So, as you can imagine, this is particularly important for speakers, when they walk onto that stage, before they open their mouth, presuming they have prepared everything, they’ve gone through their speech, they’ve left nothing, they’ve left no detail untouched. But if they feel, I look really well, I know that I’m looking really, really good. I’m looking very professional. I know my audience. I’ve pitched it well, I know the message I need to get across. That’s a very powerful feeling.

Eamonn: It is, yeah.

Frances: It is, really.

Eamonn: But, having said that, I absolutely believe that. In fact, you might be familiar with a fellow called Dr. Robert Cialdini who talked about influence. And he mentions a lot of studies, in America in particular, where they look at the authority effect of what you wear. So that’s tied into that, and is that something that you’d be able to speak to?

Frances: Well, you know, as you will appreciate of course, as speakers, professional speakers, it’s all about influence, as you say, it’s about persuasion. And it’s very much about how do we command that rapport with our audience? How do we walk onto that stage and say “this person looks as if they know what they’re talking about, they look as if they mean business”? Or do they, maybe a bit of a question mark?

Eamonn: Yeah, a question mark.

Frances: A little bit of a question mark about, does this person really look the part?

Eamonn: And then there’s the flip, of course, because now, of course, my often times go particularly for talks in front of an audience where maybe people have a more casual sense of what they should be wearing. And, what would you say to people who say, “Well, it really shouldn’t matter what you’re wearing anymore”? Is that true?

Frances: Yes, and in my programs, with corporate companies I come across this a lot, you know. Because there has been a trend of smart-casual and business-casual, and it’s a very tricky one to get right for many, for many people. And people will argue, many times, they will say, it shouldn’t really matter. But no matter whether you agree with it or not, and it can be fickle. And it shouldn’t matter. But it does. My, my key advice is to people who are dressing casually, or are business-casual, is if you’re dressing down, you need to groom up.

Eamonn: Oh, that’s really good. So, if you’re dressing down, you need to groom up.

Frances: Yeah. I had a situation in our lovely weather we’ve had recently, where as I was talking to the HR director, and I said, “what, how would you describe the culture?” and she said, “well, this summer,” she said, “it’s been kind of beach-casual. We cannot do beach-casual.”

Eamonn: Beach casual in the office?

Frances: Beach casual in the office.

Eamonn: I’m not sure I’d like to see that.

Frances: No.

Eamonn: [Laughs]

Frances: And the clients, now a lot of these people weren’t client facing but I would argue that dressing more casually relaxes the productivity. Some people will argue “I actually work better when I’m dressed more comfortably.”

Eamonn: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Frances: But, any sales trainer will tell you, if you’re making your sales calls, if you’re working from home, or if you’re working in your home office, you stand up, you put your suit on, the ladies put on the lipstick, you definitely will come across more authoritative.

Eamonn: [Laughs] I think the authoritative bit is the most important bit and that’s what the research is very hot on. But now, what about if you like the right way and the wrong way to do things. Because, one person’s notion of what looks stylish might be very different from another person. Are there certain ideas or tips that you might give for men or women whether it’s Irish or maybe for people who are overseas…

Frances: Absolutely.

Eamonn: Will you say now, here’s some things you want to know?

Frances: Okay. I would suggest, no matter who you are, or where you are, you need to know your method. You need to know who you are speaking to. So, for instance, if you are going into a tech center company, where the general workforce might be more casual environment. Obviously, you’re not going to go in suited and booted like, say, in a traditional environment. Like, say, accountancy or lawyers, or something like that. So for professional speakers, I would suggest that you always go for the best quality that you can manage. From head to toe. Because you will be viewed from head to toe.

So the best quality, in your clothes, in your shoes, in your accessories. I would also suggest that you’re very well-groomed. So it’s all that attention to detail. For ladies, it’s make-up. So you’re not looking overdone but you have some make-up on. Because it’s said, I think, statistics show that women who wear make-up are something like 6 times more likely to promoted than their bare-faced colleagues.

Eamonn: Really?

Frances: Yes.

Eamonn: Oh, so, who knew? [Laughs]

Frances: Who knew? So there you go. There’s loads of statistics like that. So you might say, that’s not fair. Or that’s very fickle. But again, again, it’s the world we live in.

Eamonn: Wow!

Frances: Isn’t it?

Eamonn: That’s a great, wow. And tell me, what about the men, now? What am I supposed to make of their look?

Frances: Ok, so for the men, I think you’re familiar with a program I used to run. Your Tie Is So Loud I Can’t Hear What You’re Saying.

Eamonn: Yes, I loved that phrase.

Frances: Yeah and it applies to women too, but for men, so something that’s not distracting. So maybe, the tie is so bright or patterned, or loud, that it’s kind of yeah I’m so busy looking at your tie, I’m not listened to what you’re saying. Or it might be, for the ladies, jingly jangly jewelry that maybe interferes with the microphone. So just to think about all the little things that can really make the difference.

Eamonn: And does complexion matter?

Frances: Yes, complexion absolutely matters.

Eamonn: Why?

Frances: So, I don’t know about you but many people say to me, “Oh, I put on such-and-such a color and I feel absolutely drained,” or, “it really wears me out,” or I say to somebody, if somebody says to you, “oh were you out and around last night?” and you’ve had ten-hour sleep and they say, “you’re looking a bit wrecked,” you’re probably wearing the wrong color. So the colors that suit your complexion can be defined by your hair color, your eye color, and your skin tone. So it’s important to wear colors that complement your own natural coloring. Particularly when you’re presenting on a public stage.

Eamonn: Well, when you need more energy, if you think about the Irish complexion and we have this beautiful, milk bottle complexion. I said beautiful [laughs].

Frances: Yes.

Eamonn: But it is what it is. So, we don’t look great if we’re wearing white shirts and the like because we really look like death warmed up, don’t we?

Frances: It is tricky, obviously we’re the very northern European, Irish, fair-skinned. So we need to be very careful, colors like black and white, as you say, can be quite draining. And people will say that to you. You know, “I feel very drained when I wear…”

Eamonn: Black is draining too?

Frances: Yes, for particular colorings. Yes, for particular colorings. And black, psychologically too, is the color of [“no” hand motion”]…

Eamonn: No.

Frances: Don’t come near me, unapproachable. So we need to be very mindful, again, of the psychological messages that our colors are giving off when we’re presenting.

Eamonn: [Laughs] Interesting. And tell me, and just the final thought. If there was one abiding tip that you would give people that makes the difference in improving your overall appearance. For men and for women. One for each.

Frances: Yes, okay. So, well let me give you one for everybody maybe, if you don’t mind.

Eamonn: One for everybody in the audience, okay.

Frances: So, I would suggest that the body language is so important, it’s so important to connect with your audience. And I know this is something you work with with your own client to connect with the audience, to make great eye-contact. The minute they walk onto the stage. And a happy, smiling face. I mean, it’s so important. A smile transcends everything.

Eamonn: Yes.

Frances: So it’s really important to, that you’re conscious of your body language. It’s open, it’s friendly, it’s connecting. You’re building rapport before you speak a word.

Eamonn: Yes, wonderful. And I’m just minded as you talk about that, the smile, of course, the appearance, is terribly important. It was Mark Twain who once said that in naked people, he found little or no influence, so it is important that you dress the part.

Frances: Exactly, exactly.

Eamonn: We’ll avoid all of that. Thank you very much. I knew this would be hugely interesting. And it’s been a terrific chat. Maybe we’ll come back and talk about this at another time.

Frances: Great. Thank you for having me.

Eamonn: Thank you very much for listening in.